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Old 02-17-2005, 01:59 AM   #1
wvrefugee
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93 Cavalier Dumping to much fuel?

93 Cavalier 2.2l

My cavalier runs great, then just like flipping a lightswitch, a sudden loss power, funny sound from the exaust, smell of gas in the car. It almost seems like I'm running on just a cylinder or two. Then again, like turning on lightswitch, bam, every thing is back to normal. Usaully after several miles it does this. Its been going on now for a couple weeks.

Just today had a new catylic converter put on after noticing yesterday that it was glowing red. Exact same problems, the new one was glowing red after the drive home today. Other new things installed trying to fix this pain have been new plug wires, plugs, gas filter. Also have been running injector cleaner from the getgo.

It's either running great, or horrible. Good for a few miles, then bam, terrible for a few. I'm beginning to think bad injector, or bad computer allowing to much fuel to be dumped.

Any opinions, ideas? As to what me causing this?
Thanks
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Old 02-17-2005, 02:10 AM   #2
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go to the ignition system first cuz if your ignition system doesn't fire the cylinder and burn the gas off then yes it will b e dumping alot of gas and your cat will get red hot, ignition system problems are alot easier to diagnose than a stuck open fuel injector(which is rare)
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Old 02-17-2005, 03:35 AM   #3
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Wow. Sounds like a horrible case of the leans.
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Old 02-18-2005, 12:24 AM   #4
wvrefugee
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narrowing it down...

I added new crankshaft sensor and coils today. Problem NOT solved. The guy at autozone sold me on them to be the problem. This is after he pulled a plug boot while it was idleing and car never missed a lick. He says I'm running on two cylinders, which I thought was the case all along. Now he says might be a fualty computer causing the cylinders to fire sometimes and not. Check engine light has never come on, therefor cannot get a scan.

New stuff added...

plugs, plug wires, gas filter, catylic converter, coils, crankshaft sensor.

Getting very frustrated, in desperate need of some ideas, thoughts as what might be the prob. plz

thx
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Old 02-18-2005, 01:51 AM   #5
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when you get in the car and just turn the key on but not crank, do you even have a check engine light, try that and see if the bulb even works, your gunna wanna diagnose better than just pulling a plug wire, and calling the computer bad, sounds like he's just trying to make some money, he could be right but i highly doubt it, maybe the module but not the computer.
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Old 03-02-2005, 10:21 PM   #6
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computer

GM computers rarely go bad, and if they do I have never seen one act the way you say.

The guy at autozone is a retard. I work at a parts store and, i don't care who you are/what you know, you never tell someone what their problem is. I see it all too often and customers always come back pissed off.

As for you, I believe you have the setup with 2 ignition coils. (DIS). I would check my ignition module.

Test your fuel injectors:
When you notice it running bad, put a testlight on each injector and crank the engine over to see if they are firing. If they aren't check your camshaft position sensor. These can be tested but if it is intermittent you will never know for sure.

If you are having injector problems and the crank sensor is good then move onto computer problems.
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Old 03-03-2005, 02:43 AM   #7
spearthemechani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvrefugee
93 Cavalier 2.2l

My cavalier runs great, then just like flipping a lightswitch, a sudden loss power, funny sound from the exaust, smell of gas in the car. It almost seems like I'm running on just a cylinder or two. Then again, like turning on lightswitch, bam, every thing is back to normal. Usaully after several miles it does this. Its been going on now for a couple weeks.

Just today had a new catylic converter put on after noticing yesterday that it was glowing red. Exact same problems, the new one was glowing red after the drive home today. Other new things installed trying to fix this pain have been new plug wires, plugs, gas filter. Also have been running injector cleaner from the getgo.

It's either running great, or horrible. Good for a few miles, then bam, terrible for a few. I'm beginning to think bad injector, or bad computer allowing to much fuel to be dumped.

Any opinions, ideas? As to what me causing this?
Thanks

ive owned 2 cavaliers with the same engine typical timeing problem for sure check timing belts,sensors,cuircuts,anything to do with timing.....
i wouldnt be surprised if it is the timing belt the timing belt went bad 2 times on 1 of mine and u notice it running in wierd patterns. constantly overheating the exhaust and boiling water out of overflow ect
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Old 03-03-2005, 03:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carls47807
GM computers rarely go bad, and if they do I have never seen one act the way you say.

The guy at autozone is a retard. I work at a parts store and, i don't care who you are/what you know, you never tell someone what their problem is. I see it all too often and customers always come back pissed off.

As for you, I believe you have the setup with 2 ignition coils. (DIS). I would check my ignition module.

Test your fuel injectors:
When you notice it running bad, put a testlight on each injector and crank the engine over to see if they are firing. If they aren't check your camshaft position sensor. These can be tested but if it is intermittent you will never know for sure.

If you are having injector problems and the crank sensor is good then move onto computer problems.

I've seen lots of GM computers go bad and do that. Just fixed one this month actually. In an olds. The cars with the 3.1/2.8 are really bad for burning computers like that also. It probably was just the computer. Even though this topic is 2 weeks old and he's probably figured it by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spearthemechani
ive owned 2 cavaliers with the same engine typical timeing problem for sure check timing belts,sensors,cuircuts,anything to do with timing.....
i wouldnt be surprised if it is the timing belt the timing belt went bad 2 times on 1 of mine and u notice it running in wierd patterns. constantly overheating the exhaust and boiling water out of overflow ect

It's not the timing belt, if it was it would affect all 4 cylinders.
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Old 03-04-2005, 01:06 AM   #9
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I agree it is not the timing belt, I just replaced the module and all three coils on a friends 3.1 lumina that someone said was the computer, lo and behold it lives! In my experience if you have one bad coil, you more than likely have all bad coils or soon to be bad. And the ignition module is usually bad as well or soon to be bad.
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:39 PM   #10
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Thanks guys for all your input. My car is still doing the same old shit. But most of my driving now is on two cylinders. Hardley ever hits all four. It's cylinders one and four (from right to left) that are not firing. Just today I tried pulling the boots off the coilpacks, thinking again a bad set of plug wires, to check for spark, none whatesoever on the left coilpack (which fires 1 & 4). But did get a nice zap (OUCH) from the other one.

I've changed the plugs (twice), wires (twice), both coilpacks are new, crankshaft sensor is new, ignition module tested good. Checked for bad grounds, loosened everything up and the snugged them back tight. New cat. converter also.

I'm at a loss here! WTF else could it be? I'm thinking ECM but dont want to dish out that kinda $$ for a beater. Even if it was the ECM, should I have more problems than that. When the EMC died on my Jimmy wierd things started to happen with the dash lights, tach, etc. before it finally just quit.

It's hard to pull these WV hills on just two cylinders.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvrefugee
Thanks guys for all your input. My car is still doing the same old shit. But most of my driving now is on two cylinders. Hardley ever hits all four. It's cylinders one and four (from right to left) that are not firing. Just today I tried pulling the boots off the coilpacks, thinking again a bad set of plug wires, to check for spark, none whatesoever on the left coilpack (which fires 1 & 4). But did get a nice zap (OUCH) from the other one.

I've changed the plugs (twice), wires (twice), both coilpacks are new, crankshaft sensor is new, ignition module tested good. Checked for bad grounds, loosened everything up and the snugged them back tight. New cat. converter also.

I'm at a loss here! WTF else could it be? I'm thinking ECM but dont want to dish out that kinda $$ for a beater. Even if it was the ECM, should I have more problems than that. When the EMC died on my Jimmy wierd things started to happen with the dash lights, tach, etc. before it finally just quit.

It's hard to pull these WV hills on just two cylinders.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!
ok if you read your post you have half your problem narrowed down cyl 1&4 fire off the same coil try switching coil with the other and retry while apart check the contacts of the module to the coil
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:57 AM   #12
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This thread is so full of shit I went and put my hip waders on by the time I got half way through it. Simply unbelievable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Wow. Sounds like a horrible case of the leans.
Negatory ghostrider. Running excessively rich causes a cat to over heat. Running raw fuel through the cylinders causes it to glow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spearthemechani
ive owned 2 cavaliers with the same engine typical timeing problem for sure check timing belts,sensors,cuircuts,anything to do with timing.....
i wouldnt be surprised if it is the timing belt the timing belt went bad 2 times on 1 of mine and u notice it running in wierd patterns. constantly overheating the exhaust and boiling water out of overflow ect
Do you have the word stupid tatooed in big red letters on your forehead? You should. You are a perfect example of what is wrong with online forums. You have NO F*CKING IDEA what you're talking about, but you still can't stop yourself. Timing belts on a 2.2 Cavalier? When exactly did that happen? Please go crawl back in your hole and don't breed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by osborste
ok if you read your post you have half your problem narrowed down cyl 1&4 fire off the same coil try switching coil with the other and retry while apart check the contacts of the module to the coil
Finally, someone who has the ability to think. It's all so simple with just a tiny bit of effort. The obvious place to start is the cylinder 1/4 coil. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good. The next logical place to look is the module. When installing the new coils, is it possible you bent over one or both of the protruding spade connectors? I've seen it happen more than once. If in the unlikely event that it's not one of those items then you're looking at an ECM or wiring. It's very possible to have a dead driver circuit. This usually happens due to lack of maintenance. A dead plug or weak wire overloads the coil and up the primary circuit it goes.

Just think, right now you have at least $500 and who knows how much time tied up in your little fiasco and you haven't fixed shit. A competent tech at a quality shop could have nailed this and repaired it in a few hours for far less money. Dumbass.

Final thought. I wasted a year of my life as a store manager at Advance Auto Parts. The store (and stores like them) and therefore it's employees are there for one reason... To sell you parts. I don't care if it hurts anyone's feelings but the bottom line is if they were qualified to fix cars they wouldn't be working for peanuts selling parts. Not for very long anyway.
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:39 AM   #13
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Oh No

Well I Am Always Wrong According To Hobo,but I Will Put In My 2 Cents Worth.there Is Stuff Called Freeze Spray Which Is Great For Nailing Down Intermittent Components.if The Module That Drives The Coil Pack Is Internally Fractured,the Spray (which Is -50f) Makes The Problem Go Away.do Not Spray Any High Voltage As When The Frost Thaws It Will Form Water And Conduct.but It Is The Best For Finding Bad Low Voltage Components.spray It Until
A Layer Of Frost Forms,and It Will Simulate A Nice Winter Morning.
Great For Finding Heat Related Trouble,it Is About 10 Dollars A Can.great For Finding Bad Ic And Computer Problems.it Is Sold At Electronics Supply Stores.if You Know Someone That Has An Oscilloscope,scope The Leads That Are Driving The 2/3 Coil Pack.you Should Have Similar Waveforms On The Other 1/4 Pack.if You Do Not Have A Scope,some Meters Like The One I Have Will Measure A/c Signals Up To 200 Khz.you Can Get A Meter For 100$
These Days That Has A Frequency Counter Like That,and It Will Detect A Switch Pulse Waveform That Drives The Coil Pack From The Ignition Module .
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:53 AM   #14
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WoW! I come here looking for advice and get blasted by a hip wader wearing redneck! Now thats funny. You obviosly need to spend more time wading those streams and less time sharing your " I know it all " attitude with those of us that are so much less fortunate than yourself.

I've spent nowhere near $500, so you may need elementary math again and refigure your calculations. If you can't figure it out, try a calculator. It has both a + & - button.

Hey with all that knowledge you have, you should send a resume to Richard Childress, I hear they're always looking for a few shade tree mechanics.

If you have nothing better to do than this, grab a wrench and go twist some nutts asshole.
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Old 03-25-2005, 03:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvrefugee
WoW! I come here looking for advice and get blasted by a hip wader wearing redneck! Now thats funny. You obviosly need to spend more time wading those streams and less time sharing your " I know it all " attitude with those of us that are so much less fortunate than yourself.

I've spent nowhere near $500, so you may need elementary math again and refigure your calculations. If you can't figure it out, try a calculator. It has both a + & - button.

Hey with all that knowledge you have, you should send a resume to Richard Childress, I hear they're always looking for a few shade tree mechanics.

If you have nothing better to do than this, grab a wrench and go twist some nutts asshole.
Well, let's just see. You're right on the price of the parts. Unfortunately for you and us, that's the only thing you've been right about. A little bit of quick math says you spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $225 for parts plus intallation of the cat, so let's call it about $300. Add to that the time, frustration and probable damage you're doing to your car which we certainly can't put a price on at this time and anybody with half a brain can see you're getting an extremely poor returm on your money. So, you're the one who has all the things mentioned above invested and your car still runs like shit... And you think I'm the stupid one. What a freakin' idiot you are.

It seems to me that if RCR wanted a shadetree they'd be more than happy to pay your way because... Based on your laundry list of pointlessly changed parts versus success repairing your car ratio you're about as shadetree as they come. I can't wait until you stumble across the actual problem and then come back here to tell us how GRRREAT you are. If you replace enough uneeded parts, eventually you'll replace the right one by accident. Keep in mind that YOU are the toad here begging for help because you're not smart enough to figure out how to fix the problem yourself. You are a true nitwit, the anti-mechanic, dumbshit o-plenty. The only good thing you and people like you is make my stock in Advance and AutoZone more valuable.
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