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Old 03-22-2006, 02:51 PM   #16
starscream0
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
And I didnít say anything about the republicans that wasnít true...
Typically they are against gay rights, Medicaid and Medicare, and want to increase military spending and lower taxes...

i dont like gay people. they're weird
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:45 PM   #17
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Well, I don't really have a political party...I'm probably closest to Libertarian(sp?), but I'm by no means a pacifist.

About this whole taxes and medicare thing, get rid of medicare and medicade, give some of the extra to the military, and use the rest to fill in the hole that would be left from cut taxes. duh!! lol

In fact, we should just get rid of welfare while we're at it, instate the fair tax after getting rid of the income tax, gradually phase out public education, and probably alot of other things that aren't coming to my mind this early in the morning. Then we could really increase military spending and cut taxes.
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:52 PM   #18
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Wow, something lately about the verbal fighting here just makes me not want to read the rest of the thread. Personaly I am niether, I do not vote a ticket nor consider myself to be a true blue "insert party here". I do find myself voting however for things that matter the most for me, whether Dem or Rep. I would however say I am more conservative thean most, but that does not make one a Rep.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jedimario

In fact, we should just get rid of welfare while we're at it, instate the fair tax after getting rid of the income tax, gradually phase out public education, and probably alot of other things that aren't coming to my mind this early in the morning. Then we could really increase military spending and cut taxes.
What a great idea!
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:39 PM   #20
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"I'm a Democrat , What the hell is that? Take my sh!t better mail it back." -SPM: All Cot Up.

But seriously, I got screwed over 2 years ago (along with about 8,000 other students at SIUC) when Bush didn't let me vote because I couldn't vote down here in Carbondale, only back in Chicago wherever I was registered (not that it mattered, Illinois voted Democrat anyways).
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
CNN doesnít work for you?
Fine I have news stories from news week, the wall street journal, the Detroit free press and countless others, but they are all on the ProQuest database and Iím not entirely sure that the links will work here if you donít have a subscription to the service. When I get home form work this afternoon ill be happy to post a few links.
Okay, I actually managed to force myself to read this drivel. I'll have to take this one little distasteful bite at a time. This is your supplied "proof" of "Republicans discriminating against humans, blah, blah, blah". All I can say is oh my, where to start?

Show me where there is any discrimination. The homosexual community at large claims they only want to be married for the legal (medical, taxes, next of kin, etc) reasons. Civil unions would allow that to happen. If that's all they truly want, instead of pushing some not so well hidden agenda, they'd say thank you very much and go on their way. What they actually want to do is change the fabric of society and to have special rights granted to them. Like so many special interest groups before, they're not looking for equal rights, they're looking for extra-legal rights. Additionally, they want to have marriage "rights" when for everyone else it's a privilege.

So let's just say that the law is changed and the mos win. Where exactly does it stop. Will humans then have the 'right" to marry animals? Will they have the right to marry children or maybe have multiple spouses? How far will it have to go before you say enough is enough, it's going too far? You and people like you need to get over the fact that like it or not, marriage between a man and a woman is an institution that cuts across all racial, ethnic and religious beliefs, barring some crackpot religions that 99.9% of the world simply ignores. And for someone like you who claims to be agnostic, why is the institution of marriage so important? Marriage is essentially a religious and spiritual thing. Because you have an agenda, plain and simple. And to give you the benefit of the doubt, I think it's also because you too young and inexperienced to actually think things through.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchango36
"I'm a Democrat , What the hell is that? Take my sh!t better mail it back." -SPM: All Cot Up.

But seriously, I got screwed over 2 years ago (along with about 8,000 other students at SIUC) when Bush didn't let me vote because I couldn't vote down here in Carbondale, only back in Chicago wherever I was registered (not that it mattered, Illinois voted Democrat anyways).
President Bush prevented you from voting in Carbondale? Why don't you explain in great detail exactly how he did that.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
President Bush prevented you from voting in Carbondale? Why don't you explain in great detail exactly how he did that.
I was down here at Carbondale at the time of the elections. I couldn't vote down here because suposedly I could only vote in my registered district or something like that . The whole thing was screwy and alot of us "just turned 18 year olds" couldn't vote becasue of this.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchango36
I was down here at Carbondale at the time of the elections. I couldn't vote down here because suposedly I could only vote in my registered district or something like that . The whole thing was screwy and alot of us "just turned 18 year olds" didn't vote becasue of this.
Newsflash. That's the way it works everywhere in the USA. When I was stationed in California but was still a legal resident of Florida I had to vote by absentee ballot. It's the law and has been for MANY years. During the last presidential election, I was working in a different county and to vote had to drive back to the precinct I'm registered in. It's the law and has been for MANY years. There is nothing screwy about it. If a lot of you chose not to vote, that sounds like laziness and/or apathy on your part.

So now explain to me exactly what President Bush had to do with this situation. Was it his fault because he didn't drive to Carbondale, load you all up on a bus and take you to your registered voting precincts? Somthing tells me you're shifting blame intead of taking responsibility for your own (in)actions. I just can't put my finger on what.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:34 PM   #25
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Typically I could be labeled a Conservative leaning Libertarian, but I'd vote either Libertarian or Republican depending on the candidate. Last presidental election I did not vote Libertarian because Badnarik is bit nuts and left for my tatses. So I voted for the lesser of the two evils...Bush. He hasn't really let my vote down yet, but I think he could be doing better in some areas and get congress on his side more. I'm hoping we can get A GOOD Conservative president next so we can CONTINUE tax cuts and start rolling back on plans like welfare and social security (which obviously the back has been way broken there). Living off the government is quite possibly the worst aspect of life I can possibly see...and I hope we can trim these "social contracts".

I want to get a president in there that wont succumb to the gay agenda of marriage, I like how it is now, civil unions. I want a president in there that will continue to not support abortions and not support stem cell research on aborted babies (Stem cell research is fine on anything else). I think our country is going in the RIGHT direction as far as we are socially speaking. One thing Bush has let me down on is getting a balanced budget. I know we are trying to fund the war, but I seriously doubt we SHOULD be in this much debt. I think the economy is doing just fine but isnt really growing nor declining. I guess you could say the economy is still kind of being stagnant from the dot com burst in the late 90's and the attack on 9/11, both which majorly affected the economy negatively.

On a lighter note I wouldnt mind a president who would support the legalization of marijuana, and then tax it EXTREMELY heavily (much like we do Tobacco). I think this could create some serious revenue with all the pot heads we have in the country. This should also seriously cut DOWN the aimless money we spend on the War on Drugs. This would ONLY happen with a Libertarian president though.

Slap a nice 20-25% tax on that and we should see some good revenue.
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/otp.html
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
Show me where there is any discrimination. The homosexual community at large claims they only want to be married for the legal (medical, taxes, next of kin, etc) reasons. Civil unions would allow that to happen. If that's all they truly want, instead of pushing some not so well hidden agenda, they'd say thank you very much and go on their way. What they actually want to do is change the fabric of society and to have special rights granted to them. Like so many special interest groups before, they're not looking for equal rights, they're looking for extra-legal rights. Additionally, they want to have marriage "rights" when for everyone else it's a privilege.

Quote:
In eight of the 11 states in which voters last November approved state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage - a clean sweep for gay marriage opponents - the ban extended to civil unions as well

Most conservatives want them both banded

http://cygnus.lcc.edu:2051/pqdweb?di...=309&VName=PQD

I can give you the number for my uncle, I know he can more articulately explain why he wants to be able to MARRY his partner! A lawyer heís been with for over 40 years!

Quote:
So let's just say that the law is changed and the mos win. Where exactly does it stop. Will humans then have the 'right" to marry animals?
Are you equating homosexuals to animals? Because thatís how this stupid argument comes across every time I hear it! Youíll have to come up with a better reason then these outrageous what ifs to support your argument, they donít hold ground.


Quote:
Will they have the right to marry children or maybe have multiple spouses? How far will it have to go before you say enough is enough, it's going too far? You and people like you need to get over the fact that like it or not, marriage between a man and a woman is an institution that cuts across all racial, ethnic and religious beliefs, barring some crackpot religions that 99.9% of the world simply ignores. And for someone like you who claims to be agnostic, why is the institution of marriage so important? Marriage is essentially a religious and spiritual thing. Because you have an agenda, plain and simple. And to give you the benefit of the doubt, I think it's also because you too young and inexperienced to actually think things through.
A spiritual thing thatís right! im a very spiritual person doesnít mean Iím religious. Why is it so important to you? Obviously you a fellow agnostic is hell bent on keeping things the way they are... no room for improvement?

Thereís an article ill track down tonight about the origins of marriage... and how in the begging it had nothing to do with religion or love.... and the question really is that in a world where half of all marriages end in divorce is it really an institution worth "saving".
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
Most conservatives want them both banded

http://cygnus.lcc.edu:2051/pqdweb?di...=309&VName=PQD

I can give you the number for my uncle, I know he can more articulately explain why he wants to be able to MARRY his partner! A lawyer heís been with for over 40 years!

Are you equating homosexuals to animals? Because thatís how this stupid argument comes across every time I hear it! Youíll have to come up with a better reason then these outrageous what ifs to support your argument, they donít hold ground.

A spiritual thing thatís right! im a very spiritual person doesnít mean Iím religious. Why is it so important to you? Obviously you a fellow agnostic is hell bent on keeping things the way they are... no room for improvement?

Thereís an article ill track down tonight about the origins of marriage... and how in the begging it had nothing to do with religion or love.... and the question really is that in a world where half of all marriages end in divorce is it really an institution worth "saving".
I don't want to talk to your uncle, and I have never compared mos to animals, although my barber assures me he is one in bed. If you don't think that we as a species have already started sliding down that slippery slope of "I'm a minority, I need special rights", you're sadly mistaken.

As a fellow agnostic, I'm smart enough to understand that some things are the way they are for a reason. Marriage is between a man and a woman and that should not change. Sometimes change brings improvement and sometimes it just makes things different. Allowing same sex couples to marry would simply be different. And if marriage is really such a bad deal, why do the mos want in on it anyway?

P.S. Don't bother supplying links for the Lansing Community College Library. I don't have a password.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
Most conservatives want them both banded

http://cygnus.lcc.edu:2051/pqdweb?di...=309&VName=PQD

I can give you the number for my uncle, I know he can more articulately explain why he wants to be able to MARRY his partner! A lawyer heís been with for over 40 years!


Are you equating homosexuals to animals? Because thatís how this stupid argument comes across every time I hear it! Youíll have to come up with a better reason then these outrageous what ifs to support your argument, they donít hold ground.



A spiritual thing thatís right! im a very spiritual person doesnít mean Iím religious. Why is it so important to you? Obviously you a fellow agnostic is hell bent on keeping things the way they are... no room for improvement?

Thereís an article ill track down tonight about the origins of marriage... and how in the begging it had nothing to do with religion or love.... and the question really is that in a world where half of all marriages end in divorce is it really an institution worth "saving".

NO he wasnt equating gays to animals, he was simply stating WHERE do we stop? 20 years ago nobody would even mention granting Gays the priviledge of marriage. Today it's a major issue (although doesn't get much support as we found out from elections, from what I recall most states voted down giving gays marriage priviledges by a factor of over 2:1, sometimes 3:1). So, if we granted the priviledge of marriage to gays, what's to say 20 years later somebody says " I should have the right to marry my first cousin" - what's to stop you from saying they shouldn't be able to do this? There has to be line drawn somewhere for a Marriage Priviledge and it has clearly been drawn throughout marriage's existence that the ONLY definition of Marriage is a holy binding contract between MAN and WOMAN. There is no changing this, as much as the gay agenda wants to, they never will.

Also, just because Americans are divorce happy doesn't mean we should FURTHER lessen the great contract of Marriage. That's not a good reason at all. Marriage is still special for those other half of Americans and they dont want it further to be tainted and left to be more meaningless.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:18 PM   #29
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NO he wasnt equating gays to animals, he was simply stating WHERE do we stop? 20 years ago nobody would even mention granting Gays the priviledge of marriage. Today it's a major issue (although doesn't get much support as we found out from elections, from what I recall most states voted down giving gays marriage priviledges by a factor of over 2:1, sometimes 3:1). So, if we granted the priviledge of marriage to gays, what's to say 20 years later somebody says " I should have the right to marry my first cousin" - what's to stop you from saying they shouldn't be able to do this? There has to be line drawn somewhere for a Marriage Priviledge and it has clearly been drawn throughout marriage's existence that the ONLY definition of Marriage is a holy binding contract between MAN and WOMAN. There is no changing this, as much as the gay agenda wants to, they never will.
50 years ago the idea of a black man marrying a white woman wasnít even considered now its common practice. Would you like us to return to this belief structure as well?

200 years ago Edgar Allan Poe married his first cousin a 13 year old. This was common place back then (remember that human life expectancy wasnít what it is now)... in the time since we as a society have determined that 1. Marriage cant occur between first cousins because of the known birth defects that are associated with such unions, and 2. That a 13 year old is a child and canít enter into contract.
In 20 years these will still be true, but marriage should be between 2 consenting adult humans... sex shouldnít matter... love knows no gender boundaries.

Quote:
Also, just because Americans are divorce happy doesn't mean we should FURTHER lessen the great contract of Marriage. That's not a good reason at all. Marriage is still special for those other half of Americans and they dont want it further to be tainted and left to be more meaningless.
Its only lessening to you... to me it can only strengthen it... I mean there are straights who donít stay together 40 years and I here is a gay couple who have been together for 4 decades... longer then you or I have been alive, hell double my life time... are you saying their love isnít true? That they shouldnít be allowed the same privileges as the rest of us? Because that is what your saying.


Marriage by the state is a legal contract between 2 peoples, marriage in a church is a spiritual bond and there is a difference. If you remember a little thing called separation of church and state that our founding fathers painstakingly put into practice so that injustice like this could be avoided, please donít say ďthey never intended it thisĒ because you cant know that, hey left it open for a reason. So the state canít make policy based on religious views, and aside from vwhobo (who is the only agnostic I have ever met that isnít pro gay marriage) these are greatly religious based... Id like for you to tell me why you feel homosexuality is wrong, but the trick is youíll have to stay away from anything religious, I want documentation where homosexuality has hurt someone (just being gay not acts that are stereotypical of homosexuals). You cant say I feel either, because thatís not proof and if its not good.

Oh and hobo it isnít ďI'm a minority, I need special rights" its ď Iím a minority, and I disserve the same privileges as youĒ.
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Old 03-22-2006, 10:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by starscream0
i dont like gay people. they're weird
What so your calling my cousin weird? Just because he has a different preferance than most of us? Watch your mouth pendejo.

And Thermo, please enlighten me, why don't you support gay marriage? Is it because you just don't like gay people? GET A ****ING CLUE YOU IMMATURE PRICK......This has torn my cousin because he has found someone he really loves but can't get married do to THIS ****ING LAW
Jesus I'm mad as hell right now, can't people understand that homosexuals love to and are just like everybody else but because they favor the same sex then that makes them not fit into ****ing society.
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